|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 9:43:11 GMT -5
Notes from my testing of Senator to try and pin down some complaints. I will break the notes up into separate posts so that people can easily respond to pieces of it.
Some of this is in response to comments that the Senator does not do well at "my guys kill your guys" which was followed by a comment that all games and all nations end up that way. Well others will have to provide some data on that. I dont tend to play Senator that way and apparently neither does the AI.
My testing for this started on a "Enormous" map and Agricultural age for the least distractions. I took Senator, and added 2 AIs allied to be as Senator. One was set to Jester (the level of a basic starting human player), and the other AI Senator ally was at Duke level so I could see the differences in how it played.
Later I will run one where it is more of being against the Senator. MP considerations are up to others to test (I said test, not comment on)
|
|
|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 9:44:08 GMT -5
I started to follow my comment about the Senator that I dont tend to play it as "my guys kill your guys" as the final option. But then I realized that I dont play most of them that way. If there is only one method of play then there will be good and bad selections for nation. Just like with Dom3 I hope that never gets "fixed" to balance nations for only specific play.
As far as Senator, I find it more useful to run many small armies than one large one. Senator can recruit a lot of troops with that extra gold, and from at least twice as many locations as any other nation.
They have a ranged unit, yes front rank and only one shot, but if its in second or third ranks it does fire and it moves up to the front line better than most.
They also have an auto-generator which I find very handy. Not a complete strategy like Trolls, but still handy. I find they play better than many in "area control". Often Ive seen mentioned about other nations that they do not play enough area control so I havent seen this as needing a fix.
Especially with effective use of Auger. An area-effect targetable scry? The best possible scry for this nation. Plus it allows for great directing of Team members (even AI team members).
|
|
|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 9:48:13 GMT -5
The initial breakdown of what troops to leave and which to take in the first turn MIGHT need some tweaking. At higher levels it seems fine. But at Jester level it left 3 Principes. That might lead to "the ai died in the first couple of turns before I found him".
But Im not sure how that would be changed to reflect an AI that is playing at beginner human level. What do players leave? And if the change was reflected as a percentage, then does it continue to work for higher level AIs?
Maybe someone better at math could take a stab at this. I dont like posting exact formulas because that only leads to abuse instead of fix. But Im wondering if its something like 10% of infantry units as a standard base by all nations for citadel guards in the first turns?
|
|
|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 9:54:14 GMT -5
It was due to comments on another forum that I am testing it again. But it seems to kick ass at higher AI levels. In fact, the only thing I thought to suggest so far from my solo games against AI Senators is that it didnt seem to use its snail units as well as others. It takes Praetorian Guards with it on patrol rather than use them as home guards which would aid its citadel guarding AND its exploring/patrolling. The numbers of each that it purchases seem ok if it would just leave the snails home.
But in testing, I found that the snails WERE left home early in the game. Later when it had more gold/iron it bought many of them and took them with it. Im not sure if thats bad or not.
Now from other comments Im seeing in forums about play styles, Im wondering if I should make such a suggestion. It sounds like most of the players would not use the more powerful but slower units as guards? They seem to want them for head-to-head combat but then complain that some nations are too powerful by the time they reach them. So even if I feel its an improvement, if it reflects strategy that the average player doesnt use then is it a reasonable beta-tester suggestion?
|
|
|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 9:58:48 GMT -5
Some notes about units I was offered: Pyromancer 100 Reveler 62 and only 25 gold for an auto- generator Heliodromus 98 Auger for 88 gold. Scout, leader, and scry for 3 gold?!? Old Wizard 159 Golden Wizard 118
The Senator gets effective units for under 50 gold which is a big balance bonus worth noting.
And larger numbers Senator units show up regularly for special purchase offers.
At a very reasonable short time even the Jester purchased more citadel troops. So the problem of leaving so few at home in the first couple of turns did get taken care of later. But still might be an "early death" problem. Not sure what to recommend.
Senator is great vs undead with its many Solar mages. Basically one of the rock/paper/scissors balance against the undead nations
Senator AI is effective vs blood sacrifice nations also since its focus/goal types of sites that must it must take and hold overlap to decrease the resources of those other nations
Seems effective vs Baron due to even more overlap of resources
Problems nations (or best allies) tend to be witches, druids, trolls. The Senators goals do not automatically block the expansion of those nations. But Id consider the Reveler to be the answer there. Or the fact that I got a Pyromancer offer fairly early. Do the Solar mages special to Senator also get the ability to burn forests?
And I know that Temples and Libraries boost getting some of these but Im wondering if the Auger and Reveler that I would recommend as a tactic are increased by capturing those also.
I think I need to do another test. This time I will add some of the scenario commands to the map so that my Senator gets a LOT of gold/iron at the start so that I can buy everything Im offered so I can get a better look.
|
|
|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 12:25:01 GMT -5
========== new test game ====================== AAAAAHhhhh this time I looked. I did NOT notice before that the starting numbers are not the same? Is it random or is it based on level? This is before anyone has moved. I am in the first nation slot (green) so everyone is waiting on me. Hovering over my capital shows 27 units inside. But when I look at my allies, Senator yellow at Butler level has 32 units, and Senator brown at Knight level has 37. That can account for the differences in the number of units left guarding on the first turn. I suspect its a basic part of the AI level. which would seem to work fine. At stupid levels, it dies quick. And at higher levels, it doesnt
|
|
|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 12:37:50 GMT -5
Serpent Acolyte for 62 gold spells: Poison Resistance 3 allies Poison Bolts 3 enemies
Not too expensive for a leader. And its back-row which was another complaint about Senators.
I can see a use for this one against certain others. Witch in particular.
|
|
|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 12:48:41 GMT -5
Old Wizard 264 air shield 3 allies chain lightning, fireball. flame storm, Maws of the Earth (grips 5 enemies)
I can see this as an answer for things like Crawling Doom. Also came with 2 very nice pieces of equipment. And the 3rd level spells thing makes him great to have around when I find a library
|
|
|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 12:57:29 GMT -5
Heliodromus 92 Sunbeam vs 3 enemies, double vs undead Solar Rays vs enemy rank, double vs undead Solar Flare 3 enemies and blindness. double vs undead
This is one of the anti-undead leaders
|
|
|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 13:05:21 GMT -5
Hedge Wizard for 42 gold Fortitude +1 armor to 3 allies Poison Cloud vs 5 enemies
Came with Infernal Torch which allows you to burn Forests.
Well the Senator sure doesnt seem to lack for leaders to move troops around. Which might also be why the AI tends to play "many small groups doing area control" so well
|
|
|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 13:32:35 GMT -5
Serpent Priest 105 Serpent Staff 1-4+3 with additional 1-5 poison spells such as Hydra Blessing regen on 3 allies Poison Mist vs enemy rank
Not bad. Good for a purpose
|
|
|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 13:34:35 GMT -5
4 maenads vs 4 dwarfs with a ballista the dwarfs won. But 2 dwarfs died. Not bad for autogens
4 maenads vs a Coal Mine guarded by 1 captain, 1 archer, 1 spearman lost 1 maenad and they took the coal mine for me
|
|
|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 15:59:41 GMT -5
Dark Wizard for 87 gold Shadowform to ethereal 1 ally Terror a rank Summon 1-3 Shades
came with a Staff of Fire but unfortunately that did not grant ability to Burn Forest
------------------- White Wizard for 96 Banish 1-999 damage vs 2 undead Greater Banishment 1-999 vs rank Divine Aura give Awe to 5 allies
|
|
|
Post by gp1628 on Mar 21, 2012 20:52:06 GMT -5
I think Im done with this one. Im just not really seeing any need to boost or nerf
|
|