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Post by vladikus on Apr 10, 2012 8:17:25 GMT -5
I appreciate this gp1628 and everyone who plays the trials as well as jsv and mtadd for their work on generators. I really look forward to the scenarios and mods on their way. I have wind that there is going to be a scenario contributed soon by a forum member, so I am certainly interested to play it and to post it up here.
At this point, I haven't been adding new trials at the rate I was because I agree with gandalf that some variety is needed. I had been in the process of trying to add one difficult challenge for each class (e.g. "The Witch Hunter" for Baron, "Sorcerer in the Middle" for Bakemono, "Something Nasty is Brewing" for the Witch, "Bring Out Your Dead" for the Necromancer, "Save the Peons" also for Baron... didn't notice this but maybe I should keep this or "Witch Hunter," "Seven Levels of Hell" for the Demonologist, "Curses" for the High Priestess, "Disposing of a Despot" for the Barbarian, and "An Absolute Bash" for the Troll King). I'm not sure how fun to play these challenges are and that's the factor I'm aiming for. If it's not a fun challenge (usually meaning it's too easy, too hard, or not very imaginative), then I'm more than willing to kick it off the list.
After seeing the results of AI improvements, I will probably replay a lot of these challenges and maybe tone them down based on how hard the AI is.
Ideally, I would like to have a scenario for each class or maybe some campaigns to play. I have thought of a lot of interesting stuff to do with the scenario commands and may post up those ideas so that maybe someone else can use them if I never get around to it.
Another thing is that I'd like to take advantage of the co-op capabilities of the game, especially in players vs. AI. That way people can win some co-op scenarios together. That aspect of the game opens up whole other realms of fun (by the way, despite this being a game geared to single player, multiplayer is a lot of fun, but it is highly dependent on how long it takes your friends to do their turns).
On a side note, I haven't abandoned the Political Tribulations scenario. I'm waiting for next patch commands as well as school with never-ending homework to end so that I have a tad more free time.
Trials for Dom3 sound like a lot of fun, especially since there is such a well-established community that knows the game well enough to know what would make for a good challenge.
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Post by gp1628 on Apr 14, 2012 9:20:09 GMT -5
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Post by ulius on Apr 14, 2012 16:54:56 GMT -5
I played many of the trials and I like them. Thank you for your ideas Vladikus. I would like to share some thoughts on all the trials I played so far in the order of easiest first most difficult last. - You're just a Commoner,A Little Disagreement, Eye for an Eye Justice: Fine the way they are. They don't take too long and are nice entry challenges.
- The Justice League. I would prefer to enable "Common Cause" in this, because this should remove some strange random game-changing ally/enemy-suicide. This also would make this challenge overall a little harder, I think. On the other hand it might take too long that way -> smaller mapsize?
- A Part of the Tribe, Bring out your Dead,Anti-Progress: Fine, they are tougher but ok and they didn't take too long. Small map size might still be better for Anti Progress, because Senator and Baron are good expanders.
- The Witch Hunter Smaller map size might be better here too, I think.
- Squeezed In I like to play with a friend! More of those! I'm still playing this and it's fun but it's also taking too long. This needs a change, but it's not the difficulty
- Alone Against the World Takes too long in the endgame. Difficulty is ok and it's fun too. I also like the mapsize with it.
- Running the Gauntlet I would love this if it was tiny mapsize. Large mapsize can take long, if you get a bad start even against Jester. And tiny means just so much more crazyness. I would also suggest to have to go back 1 or 2 classes if loosing and not having to start from the beginning, because it's too frustrating that way. I think the way this challenge is now it's too difficult, because it's very unlikely not to be killed by some indies 17 times in a row. I was killed in my 5th game by some stealthed units.
- An Absolute Bash This needs some changes, because the endgame takes too long. The early/mid game is great ;-).
- Disposing of a Despot I like that one thematically, but the difficulty is just insane. I played it twice: As soon as I met the Senator his army was so huge his turns took very, very long. I felt like he had as many commanders as I had units, because he was everywhere. It needs some changes, because the game would take forever and you'd need to restart it again and again until you get a super-start.
- Political Tribulations Atm, it's just: Survive the first wave, die to the second. I like the events you trigger when walking on certain tiles. This was well done ;-), but I haven't seen much of the map yet.
What to do with the long endgame? Like I suggested in the an absolute bash achievement thread I'd change the victory conditions to something else but "Kill them all". At least kill them all should be replaced by a control ~60-80% of the map thingy where it's clear that you'll definitely win the game. An idea for One Against the World: Hold all 8 starting citadels constantly for at least a year An idea for Disposing of an Emperor: Change class Barbarian to: "Three Classes of your choice". That way it should still be very, very hard. clustered start: by your choice and common cause: on. Victory condition Win the great War: At least two of your classes' armies must be bigger than the senator's for at least two years. An idea to make An absolute Bash more interesting and a lot quicker: Improve the enemy AI a few levels maybe Baron or whatever. Victory Condition: "You're being hunted by your enemies; secure shelters for your kind". Convert all Ancient Forests to Ancient Troll Forests, explore the entire main continent (islands don't count). Troll King and Troll King's Mum must survive. It would also be good to change the fifth AI to Druid, because it has some interest in Ancient Forests.
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Post by vladikus on Apr 14, 2012 18:26:31 GMT -5
I want to thank you a bunch for this feedback ulius--it is exactly what's needed to improve the trials. Some of your ideas were actually the original intent of the author of the challenge that I overrode (e.g BandC suggested that Running the Gauntlet allow for at least two losses, and gandalf has often said that variety is needed in the winning conditions, otherwise the games are a bit mundane).
As per what you said, I made about every change you suggested--two of your ideas at the end are still in pending (related to "An Absolute Bash" and "Disposing of a Despot"--I'm trying to decide what to do about the winning conditions.
For mtadd's sanity in keeping the generator up-to-date, I have listed what changes I made for each trial. In most cases, the map has small dimensions or the challenge has lightened up--I want to avoid turn mashing and boring stack battles.
Here are the changes thus far: Challenges reordered based on ulius's feedback (see CoE3 Trial by Fire thread for order) Justice league - map size large and common cause on Anti-progress - map size small The witch hunter - map size small Running the gauntlet - map size tiny, you only have to restart the challenge if you lose twice, changed description as well Squeezed in - map size small Curses - map size small Seven levels of hell - map size large Disposing of a despot - map size small An Absolute Bash - fight four allies (rather than five), map size small Sorcerer in the middle - map size large One against the world - map size large, now required to hold 5 of 7 citadels for at least one year simultaneously (description changed)
Anyone else with additional opinions or suggestions feel free to chime in.
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Post by mtadd on Apr 14, 2012 21:16:43 GMT -5
Thanks for the changelog, it made updating a whole lot easier.
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Post by vladikus on Apr 15, 2012 20:38:38 GMT -5
Just a small update: I have resumed work on Political Tribulations and just updated it. There are a lot more special events to be added--should be more fun with each update.
Also a quick note to mtadd: I made a minor change to the political tribulations on CoE3 Trial by Fire, specifically this: AI level: Butler Necromancer and Jester Independents
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Post by gp1628 on Apr 19, 2012 12:07:06 GMT -5
Id like to get one of my maps on the list. Is Indept Lord too much? It could be at the top.
Or maybe I should create a different one and add quests. Something like "the Seven Quests"
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Post by vladikus on Apr 19, 2012 16:42:56 GMT -5
Let me play Indept. Lords and see how much time the turns take (haven't tried since the patches). The map is definitely bordering on legendary level (although, perhaps I am discrediting the skill of other players). If you create a quest map though I will more than likely add it. I'll try and give Indept. Lords a shot tonight or this weekend.
I've been easing up on difficulty a bit in my own scenario for the sake of fun and storyline and doing clever things with map commands.
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Post by vladikus on Apr 19, 2012 18:51:11 GMT -5
I fired it up and played it some. Even on my system (which is pretty blazing fast), it takes at least 13 seconds between turns (at one point I thought that the game had crashed), which is kind of a bummer. I would be more willing to take a map in which the turns were about average with a randomly created map, so I would suggest the 7 Maps Quest as being a better candidate for the trials (unless some optimization is done on the Indept Lords map).
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Post by gp1628 on Apr 19, 2012 19:46:44 GMT -5
The map is only 55x55 The problem is that there are a lot of active independents doing things. But I will see if I can make it play faster.
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Post by gp1628 on Apr 29, 2012 18:05:28 GMT -5
Save the Peons doesnt mention what setting for Cluster and Common. Those can make a big difference. (personally Id take cluster on and common off because I know it would make the these AIs easier to beat)
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Post by vladikus on Apr 29, 2012 19:32:33 GMT -5
Ah, you are correct. I decided to go with cluster start off and common cause off as well (for the sake of the storyline).
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Post by gp1628 on May 27, 2012 8:54:55 GMT -5
Do we have one for "True Equality"? Im thinking Large map of any era, and you can are playing against all xxxxx level unteamed AIs . No allies. You can play any nation you want.
The catch is that all of the other nations have to be the SAME nation as you chose. So its a game of all Senators, or all Witches, or all Trolls.
The AI level is anything you want depending on how high or low you want to put it on the challenge list.
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Post by laethaka on Sept 24, 2013 12:58:17 GMT -5
are people still doing this? I just got this game and want to start, but this thread's over a year stale...
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carn
Indept
Posts: 7
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Post by carn on Sept 27, 2013 3:41:28 GMT -5
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